We Messed Up - WAN Show November 5, 2021

Publicado el 5 nov 2021
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Timestamps (courtesy of unzi)
00:00:00 - Intro
00:02:04 - Topic #1: Intel's Embargo a.k.a. The Big Oops.
00:02:26 - Typical video scheduling, release and promotion.
00:04:15 - Quick summary and new approach.
00:05:00 - Topic #2: Intel's 12th gen processors.
00:05:42 - Controversy on evaluation methods and performance.
00:10:25 - Controversy on DDR5 RAM.
00:19:03 - Further performance and temperature technical info.
00:22:46 - Take on competition (prices, vs AMD, etc.)
00:26:05 - Perspective on PCIe Gen5.
00:34:03 - Sponsors Time.
00:34:12 - Spanning.
00:35:14 - MSI.
00:36:04 - Ridge Wallet.
00:36:51 - LTT merch
00:36:52 - New item: (Sample) backpack.
00:39:39 - Luke's First time... with the LTT screwdriver.
00:42:09 - New dynamic: Buy merch, send a message
00:42:46 - New item: Bananas for scale.
00:43:02 - Latest newsletter.
00:43:40 - Topic #3: Linus's First Time... on D&D.
00:46:07 - What D&D is?
00:48:30 - Linus "new" opinion on D&D.
00:51:04 - Video on Demand (VOD) info.
00:52:28 - Topic #5: Linux stuff.
00:52:29 - Latest on Linus's Linux experience.
00:53:15 - Latest on Luke's Linux experience (also, past experiences).
00:56:52 - GPUs are the problem?
00:57:50 - Series in the making: Linux challenges.
01:06:15 - Why Bing is the superior search engine.
01:06:58 - Quick take on gaming user experience.
01:08:02 - There are dumb things about Windows too.
01:08:55 - Command-Line Interface and Graphic User Interface (CLI / GUI).
01:13:23 - Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance Forever (FAF) experience on Linux.
01:17:03 - Take on (non-gaming) user experience.
01:18:40 - (Little off-topic) Previous "controversies"/techtubers with similar video ideas.
01:20:33 - Final thoughts: Distros, hardware, etc.
01:22:30 - Nick off-camera appearance. (P.S. We can hear him)
01:22:53 - Luke's take on "bleeding edge" distros and its updates.
01:25:04 - Unofficial Topic #1: EVGA (literally) lost a truck full of GPUs.
01:26:11 - Unofficial Topic #2: Facebook plans to shut down Facial Recognition System.
01:28:16 - Unofficial Topic #3: Side-loading apps.
01:28:25 - Craig Federighi (Apple's Senior Vice President of Software Engineering) statement.
01:28:52 - User experience and other nuances.
01:32:07 - Topic #4: Switch modder vs Nintendo case.
01:32:11 - Context.
01:33:25 - Opinions.
01:34:14 - Unofficial Topic #4 - SQUID crypto was a scam.
01:34:34 - Unofficial Topic #5 - NFTs and blockchain games.
01:35:40 - Anthony's rant, read by Luke.
01:36:43 - Valve/Steam and Epic Games takes on it.
01:37:39 - Merch messages.
01:38:44 - How to clean the spout lids?
01:41:18 - Floatplane weird thing, Twitch and VOD.
01:42:48 - Newsletter archive or blog?
01:44:24 - Themed-pins or badges.
01:47:01 - Deskpad configurator.
01:51:42 - Bad-time, same bad-channel explanation.
02:03:40 - T-shirt long-term goals.
02:17:41 - Farewell.
02:17:46 - Same bad-time, same bad-channel.
02:17:51 - BYE!
02:17:52 - Outro.


  • Your alder lake stuff is probably safe lol. My Twitter was offline. And I can't type either lol.

  • Also, Linus casually taking on the physics of thermal flux and heat soaking of materials is always fun, because he tries to break it down. Long story short: there's only so fast that copper can transfer heat away from a component. If the component generates more heat than the copper can transfer away and dissipate with the cooling fins, this is called heat soaking. Heat soaking results in components getting increasingly hot and either being throttled to reduce their thermal output or they just die. For more detail: copper is approximately twice as thermally conductive as aluminum, but it is also considerably more expensive and heavy. Heat pipes are even more efficient because that technology uses phase change liquids and capillary action combined with convection to wick heat away from the source and move it rapidly down the length of the heat pipe until the gas is condensed back into a liquid after dumping its thermal load into the radiator fin array. Vapor chambers are another adaptation of the theory and are sometimes implemented where it is particularly difficult to cover an entire surface with heat pipes and can be combined with heat pipes for more effectiveness. If necessary, and this is often seen in low-profile servers, for components which would risk heat soaking their coolers if the radiator fin array were to be made of the less thermally conductive aluminum, you will sometimes see them made of copper to even further improve their thermal dissipative capacity. To complicate matters yet further, fin shape and thickness influence how thermally conductive they are, but the amount of surface area is more relevant to how thermally dissipative they are. Additionally, fin shape and density of the fin array impacts the cooling efficiency by negatively impacting the flow rate of air through the radiator. It's why you see listings for high fin density liquid cooling radiators that specifically call for the use of high static pressure fans in order to function properly. There's a ridiculous amount of maths behind how you should design a heat sink for optimal cooling capacity based on the materials being used and the intended fan air flow rate and static pressure.

  • CAS and all the other latencies in RAM are very interesting. From the research I did back when upgrading meant deciding whether or not to dead-end yourself into a decent PC with DDR2 or to spend considerably more on DDR3, I determined that if you could get a kit of equivalent clock speed RAM in the previous architecture, then it would likely outperform the new memory, but that once your clock speeds improved by more than a third with the new RAM, those benefits of the lower latency would be lost by the improvements in overall cycles per second. Is it still worth it to spend extra on latency optimized high performance RAM? Maybe. Depends on the difference in cost and it also depends on exactly how impactful RAM latency is to what you're using it for. As far as gaming is concerned, it isn't really that vital. As long as your RAM is fast and the latency isn't garbage, it's perfectly fine for gaming. What matters more is ensuring that you are using all of the available memory channels that your processor and motherboard supports. So if your processor supports 8 memory channels, you should be populating all of them if you want the best performance. Don't cheap out on a motherboard that doesn't support all of the memory channels that your processor can. It's one of the things that has frustrated me the most when shopping laptops. A lot of manufacturers that have decided to try to keep upgradeable memory have, for some misguided reason, decided to also drop the number of memory channels on their boards to, like, one. It completely baffles me why they would leave performance on the table like that. If you're going to try to reduce the size or make it cheaper or something, then just go ahead and pull an Apple and solder it to the board so at least you can maximize the number of memory channels you're utilizing.

  • On that display technology question: there are some great TN monitors out there. I think iiyama makes most of them. Try getting those in North America, you might just get near-IPS perceived image quality (though not holding my breath on colour accuracy) at a banger price. My primary screen is an iiyama G-Master GB2760QSU, it's pretty awesome.

  • Your coming at Linux from a consumer perspective. The thing is your not a customer. The system was made by developers mostly for developers. I for one do not want users who are unwilling to learn how to use the system. That means days for weeks, sorry its a powerful system. A professional product is almost always harder to use for someone who doesn't know what they are doing. That doesn't mean make the professional product more like a consumer product.

  • As an artist, 1:36:00 makes me so happy that this effing FINALLY is being acknowledged in the broad public. It's ridiculous how many artists i nowadays see on twitter who already have had their art stolen and sold for absurd sums now.

  • Lol in what universe command line is not a bad UX? xDD

  • If you did the bundle with no shipping cost to europe I would buy it in a heartbeat. Can't really justify spending my money on things from Canada with the shipping cost otherwise :(

  • how has no one mentioned that intel has droped 2 cpus in the past year to compete with amd 5000 series that was released in 2019! amds turn

  • bruh why do you not just keep them private instead of unlisted

  • "installing software through the command line requires you to know exactly what the name of the package is to the exact character." I am not a professional computerer. I went to flight school. I'm an amateur radio operator, electronics enthusiast (there's an Android smart phone, an iPod Touch, a Raspberry Pi, and an ESP32 dev board sitting on my desk right now) and gamer (there's a PS5 controller on my desk too). I switched to Linux about 7 years ago because I got sick of Windows' shit. I'm going to assert right now that, from my experience migrating permanently to Linux, you're going to find CLI package management much more convenient after awhile. Here's how: 1. When you first arrive in Linux, you have no idea what all the software you're eventually going to want is even called. Why would you know that there's a paint app called "Pinta?" Yeah, it makes sense now that I've said it, it's an anagram of "Paint." But it wouldn't occur to you to go looking for a paint application by that name. How did I find this out? I was a new Linux user, I needed to do a simple raster edit, like redacting something in a picture I was going to post to the internet or something, I just needed to like draw a black square. My distro shipped with GIMP but no simple Paint analog. I opened GIMP, went "oh god I don't have time to figure this out" and googled "paint program linux" and found Pinta. Hey, this is usable. I did that a BUNCH. Eventually, I became familiar with a bunch of software I liked. And I knew their names. Most of the time, the name of an end-user package is going to just be the name of the software in all lowercase. On a Debian-based system, you can install Pinta with "sudo apt install pinta" Steam is "sudo apt install steam" You get pretty used to this. If you don't know the exact name of a package, you can use apt search to get a list, which can let you find the exact spelling. Autocomplete also works. I still use my graphical package manager for browsing, but for installing software I'm already familiar with? The terminal is the fastest and easiest way to do it. Especially once you start doing computer enthusiast shit like building new computers, distrohopping, etc. You can have your system generate a text file with all your packages, and have the new system install them. It's a computer, it's for doing the boring stuff for me so I don't have to spend all day clicking.

  • bruh im on a video about cars and then i pass out to wake up to linus

  • You could offer staff member merch as "random" packages or "full" sets only.

  • I will NOT install Win11; that's a downgrade.

  • My new gaming rig is Win 10. Win 11 is a dealbreaker.

  • Yes he could sell his 2080Ti for more than he paid for it, but can he replace it with a equivalent 3000 series for the price he sold his 2080Ti at? I doubt it. So Saying he's fine, is not fine.

  • Am I banned from commenting on your channel?

    • ESmain keeps automatically deleting my actually intended comment within seconds of posting it. Tried various ways of writing it and within seconds the comment is removed.

  • does anyone know why they upload as unlisted and dont use the schedule-Upload funktion from ESmain? Just out of curiosity

  • I need that backpack 🎒

  • ur mom

  • As someone with very poor eyesight I'd actually remommend an OLED and adjust the serrings from the Monitor to your liking. Btw I'm very short sighted and see less then 3% of someone with regular eyesight

  • Yes do the fully loaded combo as nft batches

  • Please have the bundle. Oh, man, that bag looks amazing.

  • Is luke ok? Diabetes or something?

  • The entire industry is moving away from it? Most CLI programs including things like 'ssh' have existed since Windows as you know it. Windows predates linux. LoL - I really think some people live in their bubbles. ;)

  • yeah im sticking with my r5 3600 and 6gb 1060 for a bit longer... prices suck, and im a light to med user.

  • Linux is awesome and wish I could switch to it. But there are so many challenges that just limit my ability to play games and work on my computers. Reinstalling windows has been faster than fixing the problems every single time. I tried to do the challenge with you guys and I only lasted a week, most of which was fighting with issues instead of getting work done. I was not able to play my favourite game at all. The tipping point for me was, I tried to switch users and one of my monitors never worked again. Reinstalled windows and was back up and running my favourite game in an hour and had the ability to do my work again in 2. I agree its a superior OS under the hood with MONTHS of configuration and troubleshooting it might be perfect but if its not functional after a week that's a fail. Argue all your want call me stupid but that's what the experience is like every time I try. Again love Linux wish I could use it but I have to run it inside a VM to get a good experience with it.

  • Just a word on the storage speeds. Got a laptop with gen4 SSD speeds and running unit tests on my code happens twice as fast. Im talking a test suit running in 10 minutes instead of 20 over the gen3 SSD in my desktop machine. based don't hat surely loading into a scene in game will make a huge difference right?

  • I dislike the un-numbered dislike button.

  • parachord bracelet design would probobly work for a antistatic thingy

  • The reasons that keeps someone running Linux is that they are sick of Windows and want more privacy,. If you don't don't have that, you will probably go back to Windows fast.

  • Linus, 5e is the easiest game edition to get into. I think it would be an amazing thing to get your kids into.

  • That backpack might be what finally gets me to order from LTT store.

  • I've been on Linux for a few years now and as an old windows user I totally agree that a GUI is better and quicker for installing and doing stuff mint is great for this I rarely use the command line i get by with steam,gog and lutris for the most part i have no real problems sometimes things get fiddly and i need to go find stuff out but as that's really rare and i get more annoyed by window on a day to day basis that i've never gone back.

  • I feel it mainly a combonation. Yes take these things in isolation but together they make a difference. As for Windows 11, Having been testing it from the very first Insider build, I am not satisfied that the fixes fixed everything, why? Because the performance drop was noticeable from the beginning.

  • I feel like all of the largest hoodies are being bought by the smallest people 😭

  • You got a view from me because I fell asleep in another video of yours

  • 1:01:49 nintendo switch

  • If you ever play Stellaris, you know how pirates pop up in your common shipping lanes when your society is having issues maintaining itself as a cohesive society. Ya know, just saying, unrelated to anything going on here in the US or anything. (Jk, I absolutely could see the SF-LA route being a pirate route that we have to have patrol stations installed to. Get a trade outpost along the way. This is the reality we live in, Scarcity is back on the menu, boys!)

  • I always describe d&d as cooperative storytelling with rules

  • "I would be that the vast majority of users have never side-loaded an app" Me literally watching the video on a sideloaded app

  • 1:12:00 ouch

  • Man, Linus has some crazy logic sometimes. "I don't mean YOU (as gamers), I specifically mean the kind of gamer that fits my personal narrative!"

  • Everyone please watch PKA if you want real entertainment. Best podcast out there painkiller already!

  • DE stands for Darude Endstorm

  • Don’t get the merch messages from the show, I enjoy it and it brings up little quick answers to stuff.

  • I hope they never works with you again. This apology is terrible. We know what you’re doing

  • The bananas look like a great addition to an office to throw around 😈

  • i just wander if some company is going to come out with tech similar in performance to ddr5 but with the memory controller on the mobo as well as cas latency similar to ddr4, thus rendering ddr5 to a similar status as RAMBUS.

  • One of the best episodes I've seen so many points I don't even know where to start I wish it was live and I was there 🤠

  • So was this DND game just an escort mission for Linus where he just attempts to cock it up? Lol being on the other end of an escort mission sounds way more fun than doing the escorting

  • Linux will never be a common desktop operating system until it has 1 command script for terminal, 1 GUI, long term support, and an easy way to save complete programs without depending on repositories. People do not want a system that is always changing and has 15 different ways to do the same thing.

  • Really love listening to all of the questions at the end! I listen later when I’m in the car on Spotify and love the topics just as much as the questions!

  • Luke is def getting fat

  • DE ist Deutschland

  • "Never buy system memory as an investment!" Economy with Linus... Bet you would have said the same thing about GPUs 2 years ago Linus! :-D

  • The largest argument FOR the comments about how it's not fair to prepare a DDR5 system to a DDR4 system - is price. Like seriously DDR5 is so damn expensive atm... But the largest problem with all the Intel enthusiasm is 3 things: 1: The Ryzen 5950X is a year old by now - and the 6000 series is in the works. AMD is introducing new technologies with the 6000 series which potentially has a massive positive impact on performance... and will have all the same advantages in their new platform as Intel does. 2: "Sometimes beats" Ok - so here is a different way of looking at it: the (in relation to tech) aging 5950X is a able to keep up with the best Intel has to offer. 3: "efficiency cores" are just a waste of space. Really what they should have done was to improve the efficiency of their normal cores. This is such a "fake" way of being able to attach the brand "efference" to their CPU... Clearly - when pushed this CPU is FAR from efficient! Look at Jays video about the power consumption of this thing. It's ridiculous! IF they had spent more time on designing 1 type of core instead of 2 - then maybe the "normal" cores would be so power hungry - but they didn't - so ... here we are! Frankly this seems to be a VERY temporary visit to the "high end" for Intel. Oh and no I'm not an AMD fanboy - most of my PCs are Intel and Nvidia... but these days - AMD is king - and making a fairly janky and power hungry CPU to be able to match AMD doesn't mean you are back on top. Let's not forget - Intel is not the "plucky little underdog fighting the giant" AMD, it is actually the other way around. Intel had it all and shat it all way though an entire decade of just making no advances and serving us the same bowl of shit every gen - with a few more sprinkles on top every time. In that light - fusing leftover Atom cores to an 8 core CPU and then OC'ing the crap out of it ... seems a bit desperate! :-D (yes yes ... I know they aren't actually Atom cores ... settle down fanboy! :-D)

  • 36:58 Linus, a great looking bag especially all the inner sleeves to support laptops, tablets and, other things. Maybe a 2nd edition you can put wheels with pull-up handle for easier transportation. It's a heavy and sturdy bag adding a laptop with accessories and, some to go cloths your bag is going to be heavy and, mustering it onto your shoulders would wear and tear on your back in the long run. Toting 20-30lbs on your back while walking through a large airport you'd be exhausting afterwards. I'm not hating just an observation.

  • U should make own channel for wan shows :D Never watch these :D

  • Lol, as a guy I don't have any rights, why should you get any.

  • 9:06 I'm not. I refuse. Windows 10 is ALREADY garbage, but as a gamer, until Linux plays 100% of the games I play, unlikely, as I'm 37 and play old games, I am forced to use windows still. What we need is an alternative that's better than Windows AND linux.

  • Linus is probably the best thing to happen to Linux, The main problem holding Linux back is their own community who are not user focused only self-focused.

  • You keep saying Linus is not easy to use , but (while I don’t outright disagree) you are not comparing is it intuitive, your saying is it like windows , OS X is completely different to windows me for people that have never used it before it can be very difficult. I’m just trying to point out that there most people have an inherent bias because they have learnt how windows does it and if it doesn’t work basically the same way it’s difficult for them to understand, in the same way if you have only ever used OS X using windows is a PITA

  • I'd buy a bundle. Haven't purchased merch yet. But I'd but that bundle

  • The beards drew me in from the thumbnail

  • The mics apparently aren't That directional XD

  • V/Bloggers - We are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO sorry this happened. Everyone - ................... No on cares. We all get our news from who we get it from.

  • Petition to keep superchat/merch message on ESmain. Also would like pre/after show on ESmain as well.

  • I don’t think most people on android use side loading. But I think it is more common elsewhere in the world like the Middle East, India, and China

  • Have the bracelet connect via "maglock" style

  • 15:20 I get that point, but it's a 5.2Ghz 1x16GB stick for 130€ though. Like it's not that much for what you get

  • 40:38 When a guy that uses backpacks just like the rest of us finally decides to make a backpack :P

  • I got the largest Desk cover (Mouse mat?) A beanie and a bottle all the way from Sweden, takes so long to get here, #sadface

  • Lets be honest Linux is not noob user friendly. Command line even in windows requires you have the knowledge talk/write tech. All Noobs want click and it works/installs itself and if you need to add new items you can type in your internet browser simple search leading to a installer or zip packet that you can open and still be 1/2 click installs itself. On windows majority of all things work exactly like that. I'm not a hater of Linux, I tried it many time so I can move away from windows spyware but it's honestly not a Noob friendly OS and repeatedly I had to study Linux tech which made me switch back to windows.

  • I know that you are getting some of that intel juice

  • 1:11 some package managers also include search functionality to find the exact name of the package you're looking for.


  • Printing is so DUMB on Windows. I upgraded to mesh Wi-Fi and reconnected my HP printer. Mac, iPhone, and ChromeOS found the printer no problem. Fucking Windows can't find the printer on the WLAN, even though the hostname and MAC address did not change.

  • Luke looks like Linus Evolved

  • i don't agree with NOT having to use command line as a gamer, it's super basic, it's very different than what we are used to, but once you understand and have tried it a few times it's probably just as good if not better since you can grab lots of different things from the same window / cmd

  • 1:12:20 bookmarking my favorite part

  • 1:02:00 gotta admit I have issues but I think that's more hp than anything. Afaik I have to have hps software, and temporarily connect it just to add it. That or I'm just dumb still as a Linux user which is likely after 2-3 years of on and off use starting 10 yrs ago and even the past 2-3 daily driving and hopping distros until now(I'm hoping I don't do it anymore.....) Edit: Samsung made printers? Til.....

  • Buffer

  • I love how Linus talks smack to his viewers. Being honest is more important than being nice 👍 hope you take that well Linus, I know you can get a bit of a sore butt some times

  • Keep the comments at the end in the ESmain stream and VOD

  • Don't expect mercy unless you are willing to give it. Treat others as you want to be treated. Linus: "But I am GOD..."

  • pls dont cut the comments from the wan show and leave it on youtube

  • I still think Linus should give Pop OS another shot. I think he just didn't update his system before installing things and so it bugged out. But, Manjaro will bug out if you do not up date it properly too. Infact I have had manjaro bug out if you do not update via command line. Linux for the most part just works better if you use command line. Pop OS and linux Mint and Ubuntu are about the only ones I have come across that you can get away without using command line. And AMD is less problemmatic in linux then Nvidia. But, I can not fault linus for getting frustrated. I got frustrated too when I first go into linux and walked away from it for a few months. Plus, linus has all the cutting edge proprietary things.

  • Is Linus going to be sued?

  • I can at least see things improving with future games and some current games with the release of the steam deck because Devs will at least be encouraged to release native support for Linux, but there will never be a simple "install and play" solution to games that aren't maintained by Steam/Devs, it's just not going to happen because they were never designed for Linux. So unless there's some miracle breakthrough in compatibility, games like supreme commander will always be a challenge to setup on Linux.

  • Linus, did you know you can complete commands/show packages in the repository using tab ? Learning some basic commands in the terminal really makes your life easier. Its just that the learning curve is steep

  • I actually was not interested in WIndows 10 performance for Alder Lake. Why would you run WIndows 11 if you buy a new CPU that runs better on Windows 11 ?? Testing each CPU in their best case makes the most sense to me. I am running a Ryzen 5 5600x and do not upgrade to Windows 11 unless it is not worse in performance.

  • The Command-line interface gives you power over your computer. There is no way for a GUI to display all of the possible combinations like piping and grepping that are available via the command-line. Time to take off the training wheels! The x86 started off as a toy for hobbyist and look what we have today. Unless Windows goes opensource it's days are numbered. You guys are strong in tech but it's time to up your game now. Get serious with Linux because it's the future!

  • You know what... At this point I have decided that I already deal with enough hardware problems, I'm not willing to switch to Linux unless it is legit as easy to use for everything I do and all the hardware I use (note: a lot) as Windows. That being said, it is really cool that you guys are doing this, and such a fresh look at all the problems a novice Linux user may run into must be tremendously helpful to developers. It's also just very interesting to hear more about why exactly Linux get both the praise and hate that it does. Keep it up! I don't want to see any 4-colored hairstyles on a future WAN show... :)

  • Sounds like the bracelet should be called the aeSTATIC bracelet since it'll be fashionable and functional. (word play on aesthetic)

  • Finding something in a gui can be a lot harder than just typing the name of it depending on the name. Sure you can have a search function but that means you switch mode of interaction from looking and clicking to typeing and then back again. Meanwhile if you are in a commandline you keep to mostly typing Still i use a gui to play video games and see no use in people learning comandline for gaming

  • Where can I find the newsletter sign-up link? It’s not clear on the LTT site…?

  • 02:03:40 on that topic, are you going to send merch to reviewers (especially the bag)? It'd be nice to see some reviews/comparison to other things.

  • Engineers? Any Software Engineers? Super down to leave my job to join you, lol

  • he just said: a 100%, is Luke a fan of Bert Kreischer?