The Dirty Way Manufacturers are Downgrading Your PC

Publicado el 26 jun 2021
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Memory manufacturers are changing the density of RAM in laptops, and the performance impact is staggering.

Check out Jarrod's Tech video: esmain.info/goal/v-deo/cI91nKaWftOlgck

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CHAPTERS
---------------------------------------------------
0:00 - Le Intro
0:56 - Cable Mod
1:07 - Intro
1:16 - Is this RAM different?
3:06 - Productivity Testing
5:00 - Game Testing
9:03 - What exactly is going on?
12:00 - lttstore.com
12:07 - What a MUX doing?
14:10 - Does this matter for Desktops?
15:00 - Yep, buying laptops in 2021 is way more difficult than it should be
15:49 - Mine
16:40 - Outro

Comentarios

  • Why is one laptop plugged in during testing and not the other? That can make ALL the difference in performance.

  • A link to the ram?

  • I will go out of my way to make sure my future hardware IS NOT 4K CAPABLE YOU HAVE MY WORD. i'll take 350% performance increase over 4k resolution, yes please.

  • yet no one talks about how when you lower screen os resolution your hardware performance can go up,, say 350%? can't make this stuff up, i lowed my screen resolution, and now my game runs 350% quicker.. YET NO ONE ON THE INTERNET KNOWS THIS OR TALKS ABOUT IT... nobody.. 1280 x 720 is what i have it set to default is 4k (NEVER 4K NEVER AGAIN)

  • How do you know what laptop have Mux or not?

  • Love this black and orange hoodie.

  • Linus: Everything about these (RAM) looks the same. Me: Um... One is made in China and the other is made in the Philippines (which I didn't even know was a thing) I also know that where it was produced doesn't really matter. I was just making somewhat of a joke.

  • Remember the days when only the gigs of ram mattered. Yup, greed brought us another bottleneck to look into.

  • I think you undersold this man. This should be outrage not disbelief. I hope this results in a multibillion dollar lawsuit in the EU or something. This has to be illegal. False advertising.

  • I love it when Linus geeks out about performance issues lol "wooooowww"

  • i have a lenovo amd ryzen 5 3500u laptop, so what is the best memory to buy? what should we be buying?

  • I wonder if any of this has to do with the Meltdown / Spectre. The "wild peaks" actually representing minor page faults related to mmap and the increased cost of this page fault and sys-calls as the fixes created. Its pretty much standard now for game engines to use this technique to page in geometry and texture data (mapping a file to memory and then letting the system page in/out as necessary). Your difference in game performance could be related to one reading the chunks into preallocated ram, and another using memory mapped files which triggers page faults.

  • what if i mix 1rx16 and 1rx8 will i get atleast 15% increase rather having both 1rx16...do answer anyone cheers

  • They are going to start sending them test laptops with different ram. And the customers will get the slow ram.

  • It's the same with every product. Sell quality to get brand loyalty, then sell less for more. Look at any product at a grocery store.

  • Swapped 1Rx16 (2x8GB) to 2Rx8 (2x16GB) in my laptop went from 8608 to 9581 on Time Spy. 5800H & 3050 For reference my 5800x desktop gets around 11K... Dang impressive. 11.3%

  • idk what the heck is wrong wih my laptop it never throttels more than 2.4 ghz in benchmarks for all cores idk y i use a core i5 1135g7 but in singlecore benchmarks i hit 4.2ghz idk whats wrong can someone help me in this i checked if i am thermal throtteling or somethign but i am not

  • Will it work if x8 and x16 ram were mixed?

  • Why Linus why? Not only Gamers out there, many content creators too. Please test the Strix G15 in this regard.

  • This is why I don't really bother with gaming laptops. But I would bother with a Mobile Workstation.

  • The one on the right is MUCH better visually.

  • I just got this laptop from best buy and it has the better x8 RAM sticks in it I guess ASUS listened XD

  • who are the people giving thumbs down to this informative video?

  • Watched this twice, and still no idea which one is the better one.

  • 10:20 i get that youre going for the smallest price, but using x8 memory chips RAM in that laptop isnt going to significantly lower the 750$ difference compared to the intel/nvidia system, AMD LMG to receive some cease and desist letters in the near future LMAO also, for gaming a DIY PC is the only way to go, always has been, always will be since the dawn of computers; laptops are not meant for that. laptops by definition means compromise, corner-cutting and cost-saving; and i truly believe this is common sense, not enthusiast knowledge. so actually the problem is the ppl buying these, not the manufacturers making them

  • esmain.info/goal/v-deo/jH15ZJeHrrlqipY This guy here has the same spec as mine except Im using G15(Asus G513QM Ryzen 5800H rtx 3060 laptop, 16gb dual channel) and I couldn't get fps more than 200 and his could get like 250-300fps(on valorant). Do you think it is related to this memory issue? since it's like 20-40% fps drop if compared to Noteb's laptop. To be precise, mine only get like 120-200 depends on the map but mostly 130-150. My old gtx 1070 max-q got almost the same fps compared to this rtx 3060(which supposed to be much more powerful than gtx 1070)

  • how do I tell ram bandwidth without opening laptop?

  • HW Info tells you if your RAM is 2 ranks or 1 rank. 2 ranks would be 2x8 instead of 1x16. That seems to be what I got when I looked at my model of ram on Crucial - CT16G4SFD8266.M16FE Crucial website gives this - (Specs - DDR4 PC4-21300 • CL=19 • Dual Ranked • x8 based • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR4-2666 • 1.2V • 2048Meg x 64 •) Amazon has in the title DR x8. New Egg says Dual Ranked x8. My Microcenter laptop did not have the info that the memory it came with was, luckily, Dual Rank x 8 as well.

  • Hi guys, what about ram differences if pc have only intel integrated graphics? Still the same? And do you have an idea what ram is in x15r1 32gb 3070 qhd?

  • This is why you do the FULL spec check on any hardware components you purchase (if you CANT get that data dont buy it). Latency and Ghz within you system is so much more important than simple volume unless you plan to fill that volume, but harder for manufacturers to push higher.

  • 9:11 THE BIG A's HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

  • Does anyone know of 32 gb ram sticks that have the better timing? Do they exist and if so how can I find out before I buy :(? Please help

  • there is a catch in the 10:00 explanation. it is mostly correct but there are some important additions: Depending on the software you are running books might be less or more organized, and depending on how much time passes, it may get more or less organized. much because of how it tracks allocations. another point is that the librarian can carry multiple books at once if it happen for them to be near each other. there is one point abstract from the explanation that actually makes a difference. well 2. 1) the cpu has a cache. its like the librarian knows there is a book that gets rented every time, so he does not even put back in the shelf and delivers instantly to the customer. 2) if the librarian brings large batches to his desk to cache, but only small chunks of it is used, he will take back all books and bring another large batch just to use a tiny piece of it. this is partially controlled by the cpu and partially by the operating system. the parameters are usually adaptative, but as the library gets messier, or cleaner the parameters will not be able to set the best choices for our poor librarian. a less important fact is that the librarian does not use the index number of the book when delivering, he has lots of paperwork to do when delivering a book. he knows that the book is at row 6, at 6, shelf number 3. but when registering the information about the book rental, he must look for the isbn and decrease the availability in stock for example for cpus, the addresses still need to go through a MMU layer which will remove the the physical address from applications hands, for several reasons. so every time the librarian needs to fetch a book, it will have lots of extra work. so as he tunes his parameters it should get better. but in our case, the library gets the content changing its properties continuously (at least in the perspective for the librarian) well nobody reads this mumbling. but hope to be interesting. at least for me it is.

  • Cheap memory was always an issue. It’s not only the frequency 😂

  • The dedicated-->integrated-->LCD problem has been annoying me since 2014. 🥲

  • How is Linus surprised when his own staff put out a video on this 6 months ago in a Tech Quickie. This is not new information, or a "Tech Secret"

  • Check out ASUS’s website. They’re in full CYA mode! Unbelievable. But I think we should demand an answer to the question, what is the cause of the chip shortage? Is this like that Microsoft commercial where the wine seller starts destroying bottles of wine just to raise prices?

  • $30 for a water bottle? I'm good my dude.

  • So in the end which ram do I need and how do I identify if my laptop has bad ram ?

  • regarding graphics MUX switch, I see this to be possible in MSI GS and GP series. found this video: esmain.info/goal/v-deo/hJp1o7F9qZZjd68

  • so basically get 128gb of memory

  • Great info.. Thanks.

  • Either you've got a lazy eye or you've learned to read the script off screen

  • In case anyone wants to find out about their RAM ranks: Open CMD: Type "wmic memorychip get devicelocator, manufacturer, partnumber" Copy the part number and search, you will directly get the specs from the web. If you don't find it, chances are that the vendor is using 1RX16.

  • Manufacturers are fooling the public with such budget customisations.

  • You are famous, you can define criteria for specs on computer

  • Aka the RTX 3080 Mobile & RX 6800M are basically within margin of error as far as GPU performance is concerned. Too bad the latter is being gimped so bad out of the box by the OEMs... -_-

  • Whats mentioned here drives me to apple m2/m1x soc.

  • This is the first time I've ever seen a video that you've made that is accurate... it's because AMD is shit.

  • Soooooo.....what's happened? Did the manufacturers say anything about this?

  • King

  • Now Linus makes me doubt my setup and keeps me awake at night, thanks.

  • He's holding laptop with 1 hand🤣

  • This is harder than it should be to follow because they don't list the RAM configurations on the charts. So when he says faster on the AMD system and slower on the intel system he actually means the better (1Rx8 RAM) is better on both systems. It just so happens the default is 'slower' RAM on AMD and 'fast' RAM on intel. If it was logical at all he would have started the tests with the 'slow' RAM on both systems or put the configuration on the charts and mention it verbally

  • *mmmmmmmmm le intro*

  • My HP envy I paid $1,200 for can't run two programs at once without freezing up and having to do a battery pull to restart. Complete garbage. Its supposedly has the i7 gen4 processor. My old Toshiba laptop with Old AMD from 2006 was leaps and bounds faster.

  • I do not buy a PC or component without full specs

  • I found a way to chech your ram banks without physically checking it. Download aida64 and under then motherboard section go to SPD and there you can see informations about your ram and also its rank and banks(chips).

  • All of those manufacturers are trying to use anything they can find, no matter how shitty the chip manufacturer is they slap it on with utterly no change to the identification of the hardware they slap shit chips on.

  • *watching my memory modules resting on my desk. Corsair RGB Pro 4x16. ver 3.31 micron D x8. Not as bad as I was afraid of but my IMC doesn't like them anyway. I'm screwed.

  • I downvoted this one because while it points out an issue, your explanation of the cause of the problem is woefully insufficient. This is a video for Anthony, not Linux. I want the deep down technical explanation of the issues of how these things work and the distinction of each. x8 vs x16 isn't the answer....

  • Nice background picture

  • Time to keep an eye on ram and ssd specs and performance. These companies trying to pull a fast one on all of us.

  • Decided to upgrade my RAM last month from 16GB to 64GB. Bought some HyperX ram sticks that are rated as 3200MHz but I cannot make them go above 1600MHz no matter what I do. I feel absolutely scammed...

  • seeing old videos of you without the beard feelsbadman xD

  • What are the CL timings (CAS latency) of each of the modules?

  • Im the Lorax and i speak for the "cheap RAM sticks" First: They aren't that cheap. Comparing x8 and x16 Kingston sodimm ram sticks (used Kingston because its webpage made it really easy to compare) and the x16 was actually USD $2 more expensive. Second: The librarian analogy its just wrong. The number of books actually halved because now every book is of size 16. So, why the downgrade on performance? I look for the DRAM chips for both sticks, found both in here static6.arrow.com/aropdfconversion/1e6d3ddd3355bba2ba3460f002b13229c3ff0d6e/ddr4.pdf , and compare them with their Datasheets "KEY FEATURES": x16: www.memory-distributor.com/k4aag165wa-bcwe.html x4 and x8: www.memory-distributor.com/k4aag085wa-bcwe.html There are only two differences, the number of banks and the number of pins. With this on mind, I've got two explanations: - Having less banks (librarians) makes easier to make consecutive calls on the same bank. This is bad as you got to wait an extra tRP(13.75ns). But the impact of this isn't big. Assuming that the probability of this is 1/16 banks on the x8 ones, which i highly doubt. The expected value of these delay would be .85ns for every call, these would be a .85% hit. As the x16 has half the banks, these have an 3.6% expected performance hit. These would translate to a +1.7% latency going from x8 to x16. - The x16 modules are newer, so maybe the BIOS doesn't load the right timings profile. Watching the Jarrod's video i can see this is true. Many "secondary" timings are running from a 30% to a 100% slower than they can. You can check this on the x16 datasheet. This would be much more frustraiting because we know the mobo actually has the right profile because it loads whith x8 module.

    • PS: The x16 o x8 its not the density of the DRAM. As you can see in the x4 and x8 Datasheet, you can have the same density with different "chip organization" or "chip data bus".

  • Okay. I am lost. Seriously, the more I 'know' the more confused. I am buying a laptop M15 R5, 5900HX, RTX 3070, with 16GB of ram with intention to sell it and upgrade to what you guys recommend in order to attain a performance boost. Problem is I have no idea what to look for, or rather I can't seem to find the right memory. Can anyone provide links for 32GB of ram? Sorry, I just can't do anymore mind yoga to figure it out.

  • Urg this video gave me another bout of anger towards my g5 5587

  • So less chips/higher density better performance?

  • Thumbs up and subscribed!

  • Soo I just bought the amd laptop. What's the Ram I need to buy? What's the best possible model. I know nothing about internals of computers. Also, what's the most and best ssd upgrade for this? Thanks

  • 2 years ago we caught HP shipping 512GB Hynix NVME SSDs in desktop systems with worse performance than mechanical sata drives (sub 100MB/s sustained write speeds, 140MB/s read speeds) and disguising it with windows ram caching They then explained it away by claiming that they were "up to 1200MB/s" and 140MB/sec was "up to" They lost a multimillion dollar supply contract as a result

    • Lol who exactly is "we"? Do you work for a major enterprise IT supply contractor or something?

  • Is it ok to give gmail account access to mine.com???

  • All laptop owners, left the lobby to check their RAM. Good job Linus.

  • Sir please make videos on top very high end gaming laptop

  • What is the best kind of Ram should I use in My Asus desktop and how much. Thank you

  • So the definitive answer to which should you buy in a laptop, Red or Blue, is Red. Because the speed difference is negligible, assuming the remainder of components are the same, but AMD is more power efficient, so you get better battery life... (Link to the 13/07/22 LTT red v blue laptop comparison)

  • Hey Linus i need that background asap

  • Gaming laptops are just a bad idea. If you wanna game and move your PC easily, build an ITX PC or use an e-gpu with your work laptop (does require intel though, unfortunately).

  • There should be a law, mandating that all RAM for the US, Mexican, and Canadian markets must include this in a conspicuous fashion, on the package and the spec sheet.

  • I never know when he's going to Segway into a commercial...

  • I think companies should start showing benchmarks for what it is advertised for along with their specifications.

  • I would have expected the graphic at 13:07 to have OR gates, looks like AND gates.

  • Hey Linus You should do a video on Nano One Materials Corp. in Vancouver, Canada. They are revolutionizing the cathode materials process with their "One Pot Process". Look them up!

  • Is there any webpage that compare RAM sticks sped performance etc like the ones for GPUs ???

  • @Linus... I just went over to Amazon.com just to look for memory. SOOO many chips are coming with covers on them and ZERO labels on those covers. However, even the ones without the covers, the labels are omitting the RAM density data.... I haven't thought about RAM Density in a long long time... Good catch to Jarrod's Tech and a thank you for passing that information along! (Yes, I am old and have forgotten a lot of things--things that we all thought no longer mattered... lol)

  • I was coming back to this video , searched on youtube "amd ram single dual rank" and nothing came up, i understand that everything has to be a clickbait title nowadays... but please fix the tags so the video can come up when you actually search something.

  • I had to hunt so much for RAM frequency. With my budget I was looking at a Legion 5 or some kind of Nitro, I went with Lenovo because they actually said it was dual-channel 3200MHz.

  • Aida64 and HWiNFO MEM specs screenshots would make this video perfect. Unfortunate this show is for "like you are 5".

  • you changed 1 stick only on each... instead of changing 2 on each... why didnt you just crossed both sets instead of just a single stick ?

  • Very very informative!!! Ty very much!!!

  • This is not the first time RAM memory density has popped up and probably not the last, either.

  • It's not clear what stock, fast, and slow mean

  • If you think about it next gen Consoles take advantage of something very similar to this

  • Thank you for this ! This is y i watch!

  • linus i like your content but those ear rings......NO it makes you look unproper

  • thanks for covering this topic linus. I kind of mad when I buy AIO or laptop, and I can't actively switch to the dedicated graphic card as I wish. now I can expect to get what I want by researching which laptop or AIO that had mux switch.

  • Linus talks about computer parts the same wat Steve Irwin talked about crocodiles.

  • After i watched this video I opened my brand new zephyrus 14 with ryzen 9 and rtx 3060 just to find out that all of it is true, it came with a x16 ram and also with an slow ssd nvme compared to high performance components, it is not ok to add cheaper components to a really expensive high performance laptop. Asus, are you going to fix this or should i buy extra components to get my laptop to perform at its max capacity.

    • 1. All newest ASUS products started using x16. 2. The problem changing ram stick is compatibility (some ram doesn't work well). 3. The next SSD NVME problem is heat, too much heat could make SSD Silicon die started dying from time to time, I Admit that when someone who's using RTX 3080/3090 series, their OS data starting to be corrupted.